GOPMOM Note - The fix is in.
I’ve been subjected to much criticism for my comments that the Presidential election was won fraudulently. I’ve given many reasons for it but it all boils down to two things - money and voter registration. We know the Obama campaign did not conduct it’s fundraising efforts in an ethical manner. Only God, and Tony Rezco maybe, know from where all that money came. And now we have the county election map. I know I’m not the first to recognize this but is it not a bit unbelievable that a Democrat won? If you look at the map, just at the dispersal of red and blue, tell me how a Democrat won a national election.
Yeah, yeah, I know - population centers - which brings me to my next point. Where did all the voter registration orgs focus all their efforts? Population centers. It may be legal, especially when it’s a strategy conceived by a bunch of lawyers, but it stinks of a fix. All those Liberals out there dancing in the streets, still, need to take a long hard look at this map and try to grasp the reality. We are not a Liberal nation. We are not a blue nation. Heck, we’re not even purple. We are as red as the stripes on my Grateful Nation blanket. And we’re stuck with the most Liberal Senator in recent history as our President?
So, whatever is a tried and true conservative to do when Washington has been hijacked by a few unscrupulous power mongers? Keep your eyes wide open. Watch, read and listen to everything that happens. Start recording C-Span, at least until Nancy cuts the cameras off. Pray that not a single Supreme Court Justice dies - under any conditions, suspicious or otherwise. Keep airsickness bags handy. And don’t give an inch.
I guess I finally figured out on my own why the Liberals are not as happy and joyful as I thought they’d be. They are freakin’ out. They fixed an election, they have no mandate, and they’ve just inherited an economic disaster created by their decades of their corrupt socialist policies. Not much reason to smile, is it? And here I thought Nancy Pelosi had gotten another Botox treatment - turns out she’s just that surprised, too.
Popularity: 16% [?]
Comment by LOUDelf on 13 November 2008:
I think the GOP and DNC are turning into more of the Country Party vs. the City Party.
Comment by ATG on 13 November 2008:
As I noted before, it would take massive election fraud in like 7-8 different states in order to swing the election for Obama. Add that to the fact that there haven’t been any reports (even from the wingnut elements of the Right) about any sort of widespread or systematic voter fraud, and it becomes clear that you’re just delusional.
I still don’t get the whole “liberals aren’t happy” bit.
And seriously, you’re going to cling to the redness of the map when you know for a fact that it’s not a good proxy for the “redness” or “blueness” of this nation? If everybody who voted held up a little sign that was red or blue, it would not look like a red nation, and that’s what matters.
Comment by LOUDelf on 13 November 2008:
ATG,
I think there’s election fraud in every election, and we’ve seen in on all sides — voter registration, phone bank jamming, initimadation. I do feel strongly that in this election, ACORN was heavily involved in fraud, and the problem is, that we won’t be able to see much of these results until next year or beyond. I don’t know if it was enough to swing the election however.
Also, if everybody held up a sign, we wouldn’t see a blue nation either. Many people bought the “4 more years of George Bush” line, despite the fact that McCain ran AGAINST Bush in 2000, and as his record indicated was quite a different person and politician. What the nation was, was ready for anything but Bush, and they would have gotten this from any of the candidates on the ballot. Problem is, many people buy into the myth that you waste a vote if you don’t vote Dem/Repub.
Comment by Babba on 13 November 2008:
Maybe these maps will help you to understand that Obama did not win through fraud. Look at the “County Bubbles” and the “Voting Shifts” maps.
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/map.html
Or these maps. Pay particular attention to the maps comparing the 2004 and 2008 election.
http://www.wmhartnett.com/2008/11/10/county-level-2008-election-results-as-3d-maps/
More people bought the Dem message this time than in 2000 or 2004. It’s really very simple.
Comment by LOUDelf on 13 November 2008:
I never stated that Obama won through fraud, but only that fraud was rampant. I’m not sure what you were trying to say that is disputed by my point…
Comment by Babba on 13 November 2008:
And the idea that this is a red nation doesn’t hold up to the latest polls.
“# Most Americans say it is good Democrats control Congress and the White House
# Democrats are viewed favorably by 62 percent of those polled
# More than half, 52 percent, have an unfavorable view of Republicans
# Nearly nine out of 10 want Democrats to include GOP in policy decisions”
It may not be true that this is Liberal nation, but it is not a Conservative nation either.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/11/one.party.poll/index.html
Comment by Church Secretary on 13 November 2008:
LOUDelf, there is no evidence that ACORN engaged in any fraud. There is evidence that a handful of ACORN’s workers defrauded ACORN, mostly by handing in fraudulent voter registrations. Though this was very rare, and ACORN was diligent about vetting the registrations they received, it is possible that a few fake registrations found their way through. Still, the likelihood of any of these fictitious ‘voters’ appearing out of thin air to vote for anyone was slimmer than my odds of winning Powerball.
ACORN was targeted by the GOP noise machine because they tend to sign up people who tend to vote Democratic. There was a lot of smoke blown by the GOP, most notably by John McCain, whose reprehensible, completely dishonest conspiracy-mongering during a nationally televised debate was not the act of a man who should be in the Oval Office. But there was no fire. Given the difficulty of ACORN’s calling, they did a remarkably clean job. When you find evidence to the contrary, I’d love to see it.
Anyway, LOUDelf, I completely agree with the last statement of your comment. I didn’t vote for either major party candidate. I think right now instead of harping on goofball conspiracy theories and loopy character assassinations, people of all political stripes need to put pressure on the Obama administration and on all reps and senators (of both parties) to make sure that they don’t get away with giving away our future to the careless greedheads who have all but sunk our economy and who have us bogged down in two bloody, pointless foreign wars.
Comment by American4America on 13 November 2008:
“who have us bogged down in two bloody, pointless foreign wars”
And thank God that they are FOREIGN wars.
-The POINT is to take the fight to them and let them die over there and not here.
-The POINT is to isolate and prevent any future jihadist training camps.
-The POINT is not to surrender to islamoterrorism.
-I don’t think you get the POINT.
It takes individuals like you, Church Secretary, to undermine our national security and allow for future attacks on our Homeland. I may not agree with everything done by President Bush; but, at least we have been safe since 9/11, despite the islamoterrorists efforts.
Comment by ATG on 13 November 2008:
Again, American4America, I remind you that we went just as long between the 1993 WTC attack and 9/11 as we have gone since 9/11 without being attacked on our soil, so unless you’re willing to say that we should all be thankful that Bill Clinton kept us safe for so long (which you’re not, because you’re a wingnut), there’s little point in thanking your stars for GWB.
Comment by American4America on 13 November 2008:
ATG,
I have not resorted to name-calling and do not appreciate yours.
It’s a shame a person, a seemingly intelligent person, would resort to such base reactions and school-yard antics. You have lost any credibility you may have had, in my opinion.
In the future, please, do not address me.
Comment by LOUDelf on 13 November 2008:
Church Secretary,
I personally don’t have evidence of ACORN’s fraud, but my guess is the DOJ wouldn’t suddenly go after the organization for just a “a handful of ACORN’s workers”. Of course, I agree that this was seized upon by the GOP, but no more than what the DNC had been doing as well in their own campaigns. My problem with ACORN, is that it is supposed to be non-partisan, but has acted far from it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfUEPeO2_pc).
Comment by Babba on 13 November 2008:
So much to respond to here, so little time.
First of all, Liberals may not be as happy as one might think we should be, because things aren’t good right now. There is very serious concern about our economy. Which I’d like to remind everyone is connected to our national security.
Second, while a depressingly small number of people actually bother to vote, polls done since the election, of people who may or may not vote, do show that people have more confidence in the Dems right now. This does not mean that the country is either Red or Blue. It just means that things went to hell under the control of one party. And the party who wasn’t in control looks better right now to most people. It happened to both parties throughout the 20th century.
Third, Church Secretary had some very good points about ACORN. I would only add that they, and every GOTV organization, is required, by law, to turn in all of the registrations collected. It’s not up to ACORN to decide who’s legal and who isn’t. The GOP needs to work on their GOTV efforts and stop blaming left leaning GOTV orgs for doing a better job at it.
Finally, LOUDelf I wouldn’t trust the current DOJ to investigate their own…I won’t go there since this site doesn’t allow that, but suffice it to say that if the current DOJ goes after someone or something, it has little credibility, especially in the area of elections, (don’t even go there) since it has been so highly politicized. And I’m not naive, I understand how partisan DC can be, I’ve studied it, known people in it and I’ve lived just outside it for most of my life. But the partisanship in DC for the past several years far surpasses anything I’ve ever seen.
The original post very strongly suggested that Obama won by voter fraud, the facts simply do not support that.
Comment by LOUDelf on 13 November 2008:
Babba,
Can we hear examples of how the DoJ has little credibility, especially in the area of elections?
Comment by ATG on 13 November 2008:
Facts? You and your crazy ideas Babba.
Comment by Babba on 14 November 2008:
LOUDelf, I am referring to the firings of the prosecutors who refused to prosecute phony incidences of voter fraud. And the subsequent attempts to cover it up. And no, Mukasey doesn’t instill any more confidence in the DOJ than Abu Gonzales did for me.
ATG, the facts have a Liberal bias, don’t ya know?
Comment by LOUDelf on 14 November 2008:
Babba,
They were fired due to the fact they were WEAK on prosecuting voter fraud. Just as if an administration wanted them fired because they were WEAK on child abuse, or whatever the crime, the DoJ has marching orders, and has since 2000 on voter fraud. If one of your key responsibilities in a job is not being accomplished, you too are likely to lose it.
Where is the evidence they found phony incedences, and then fought against prosecuting them?
Comment by Bob on 14 November 2008:
False assumption one: ACORN registered 1.3 million “new voters”.
- Not really. 30% of them were rejected by officials. So that leaves about 900,000 “new voters”…or does it?
False assumption two: ACORN registered 900,000 “new voters”.
- Not really. It turns out that over half were simply changing their address.
So acorn registered about 400,000 “new voters”.
This is a case of a group like ACORN trying to overstate their accomplishments to make themselves sound good. However, it also gives ammunition to those who dislike the organization. 400,000 “new voters” is pretty good, but certainly would not impact the election as much as 1.3 million new voters. Another thing to remember is that while a majority of the new voters were democrats, not all of them were - so that reduces the number of Obama voters even further. Hardly enough to swing this election either way.
The point is, ACORN didn’t play as big a role in this election as they or the GOP would like us to believe.
As far as fund raising goes, a website called opensecrets.org rates the quality of disclosure based on the completeness of the finance reports - Obama rates slightly higher (90%) than McCain (87%). Their data is gathered from the Federal Election Commission. What Obama did was amazing, but it shows how effective the Internet can be as a campaign tool. I expect both parties to do equally well next time around as they both research new ways to use technology more effectively. It just happened that in this instance the Democrats were early adopters. I don’t know a single Obama supporter (and I know a lot of them) that didn’t donate to the campaign at least once - most donated multiple times as the repeated emails from the Obama camp made it clear what was needed and the online transaction made it painless. Republicans should not fret, they will certainly be using these methods in the future - there’s nothing from keeping them from it.
Comment by Bob on 14 November 2008:
“The POINT is to take the fight to them and let them die over there and not here.”
When you say “them”, do you mean US Citizens? Because a lot more of them are dying over there than have ever died over here due to terrorism.
Comment by Bob on 14 November 2008:
One more comment:
If you look at terrorism as a global problem, it has remained relatively stable since we started the war on terror (taking between 500 and 1000 lives worldwide annually). What does this tell me? The terrorist are still out there in full force (if they weren’t the numbers would logically decrease - no?). The war isn’t working.
Comment by Babba on 14 November 2008:
Look, LOUDelf, if the Obama administration tries to do something like this, be sure to point it out to me. Because I will call fowl. I will vociferously object.
Iglesias is a Repub. He found no reason to prosecute the voter fraud cases brought before him. Because they were bogus.
“Iglesias has written an insider’s account of the affair; it’s titled In Justice: Inside the Scandal That Rocked the Bush Administration.”
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95489844
Voter fraud is not a problem. Election fraud is. Who owns the election computers? Oh my. Repubs. Excuse me if if I’m a little skeptical.
“Those companies, Ohio’s own Diebold Election Systems and Election Systems & Software of Nebraska, …”
http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/03/03_200.html
You may not find MoJo a credible link, but I grew up with it. They’re usually right.
Comment by Bob on 15 November 2008:
gopmom,
Your analysis of the map might be correct - if grass could vote! Those red and blue blocks don’t represent people, they represent geographical locations. Just because there’s red or blue in a space, doesn’t mean there’s people there. Heck, half of those red areas are national parks!
Comment by gopmom on 16 November 2008:
Bob, I was simply accentuating my point that this is not a blue nation - according to statistics, exit polling, etc. I guess I thought a visual might help the less intelligent amongst you to understand better.
The map also better reinforces my “fixed the election” argument, as ACORN did not go to extraordinary efforts in Nebraska as they did in Ohio, Florida, North Carolina, etc ? It’s almost as if they knew they could not sell their snake oil elsewhere.
Comment by gopmom on 16 November 2008:
Bob,
From CRS Report to Congress, May 2008 - American casuality lists
active duty military deaths under Clinton (no wars, BTW) - total = 7,500
1993 - 1,213
1994 - 1,075
1995 - 1,040
1996 - 974
1997 - 817
1998 - 827
1999 - 796
2000 - 758
Operation Iraqi Freedom - military deaths through April 5, 2008 = 3,866
Now, should we count those that died on 9/11 as Clinton casualties, since it was his inept intelligence resources that allowed that one? Or should we just not count it at all?
Comment by Bob on 16 November 2008:
I guess if you’d want to make that argument you could, but I was talking about terrorism. Global terrorism hasn’t decreased since we started the war. I’m not against a “war on terror”, but this particular war obviously isn’t working.
Comment by Bob on 16 November 2008:
Actually gopmom, the fact that Nebraska split its vote for the first time in 44 years shows that they were indeed able to “sell their snake oil” elsewhere. Not only that, but why would they put more effort into areas with small populations that already have high turn out rates?
Comment by Bob on 16 November 2008:
Actually your argument that we had more casualties under Clinton is skewed. We didn’t. There were about 7500 deaths under Clinton (I’m glad you’re not using the false data that was sent around) and we are currently at about 10,000 deaths under Bush. We had about 17,000 under Reagan. I don’t think these numbers mean much to be honest. I don’t think the 17,000 casualties under Reagan’s command make him a bad president. My only point was that this war on terror isn’t working. And if you think Clinton was inept, our current president has dedicated almost eight years and spent billions of dollars in the name of fighting terrorism and is yet to capture the world’s most famous terrorist. Do we blame Bush, who had a full eight years to fix the problem, if another attack occurs under Obama’s watch? I personally prefer to blame the terrorists for the 9/11 casualties, unless you don’t think it was their fault?
You can continue to use Bill Clinton as the standard to judge all past, present and future presidents against. That will always get you the answer you’re after: “Yeah, but Clinton was worse.” At some point you’ll have to confront the truth of human nature: all politicians, whether Republican or Democrat, make mistakes. And at some point you’ll have to point the finger at people you may be uncomfortable putting blame on. Comparing everything to Bill Clinton’s presidency is simply a way to deflect and obscure the real problem.
Comment by sanmonei on 16 November 2008:
I suspected as much, as soon as there was a strong indication of voter registration improprieties . All those fraudulent activities and there wasn’t a full investigation conducted to get to the bottom of it? yes, it was most definitely fixed!. The general apathy of most, was the perfect recipe for it’s triumph! I am pasting a poem that just might spark a fiber of patriotism on some of us.
LIBERTY
I gave you a voice, for you could be heard…
I gave you a land, of riches beyond belief…
I was forever vigilant, protected, guided you..
I sheltered all with open arms, comforted you…
Now vested of deep sorrow, unnoticed in silence I weep…
for some of my sons and daughters, to my rape have fallen, deaf and silent….
for some of you, have stood indiferent to this relentless siege….
oblivious of those, whose blood for you they shed….
As you side with those that wounded me,..
that defecated my flag, degraded my honor….
in pursuance of false ideals, you have abandoned me…
I AM YOUR CONSTITUTION, YOUR COUNTRY, YOUR NATION!!!
forsaken by your blind quest, filled by your delusional null ambitions…
I am rendered helpless as you, foolishly relinquish my most precious asset:
YOUR FREEDOM!!!
Comment by asthecrowflies on 27 November 2008:
Something to read to your children after putting the last piece of government issued wood on the fire.
http://www.groundbreaking.com/Good_Sam/Rhyme005.htm
Comment by gopmom on 27 November 2008:
Welcome. Those are clever. Thank you.
Comment by Phxflyer on 6 January 2009:
Got Proof?